> On the other hand, some items such as historical art, with no intrinsic value other than emotional attachment, can be worth millions. For me, its just like watching a show that I dont know the ending of yet. What is stupid is dogmas and cults lead by undocumented know-it-all type of guys. ), You write that things that gold, tulip bulbs, Beanie Babies, 1999 dotcoms without any hope of a product plan, pre-construction pricing Toronto condominiums you have no intent to occupy or rent out, and rare baseball cards are not investments.. Yes, you can buy index funds with fiat money and not with Bitcoin. So, youre saying that Bitcoin is equivalent to PSINet, one of the first ISPs. I do believe hyperbitcoinization will happen in a decade or two. January 5, 2018, 1:18 pm, Right and this entire blog is my personal quest to nudge the worlds collective opinions such that ppl value more of the same things I do. Hell if I believed that I would work my ass of taking EVERYTHING I could and putting it into cryptos! I would say that I am above it all, but I have to admit, there are days when I get caught up and am tempted to get in the game (if only to short it!). Having interest rates all the way down to near 0% without a good exit plan should give you some pause how much you want to trust these people. You cannot have blockchain without bitcoin. The issue with the .com bubble was internet companies were given a high valuation with no demonstration that they were profitable or even provided a service/product. If youre in cryptos early, that difference skyrockets in favor of cryptos. But it also has some ideology built in the assumption that giving national governments the ability to monitor flows of money in the financial system and use it as a form of law enforcement is wrong. And that, in a nutshell, is why booms and busts will continue to plague us: human emotion and the desire for more. Moneymeister 16-02-2023 WIDM 2023: mijn mening en verdenkingen tot nu toe. People will overbuy it in a frenzy and oversell it when fear sets in. So, I PayPald you the $100 for your fingernail clippings before I got to the part about them going for $70,000. Dr-In-Debt And gold has at least *some* practical value you can make attractive jewelry that doesnt tarnish, use it in electronics, dental fillings. Anyway, if your argument were correctwhich it partially isthen you of all people should be against fiat money systems like the US dollar in its current form. Started by JenniferW. If you dont have the Bitcoin in your own (encrypted, hardware, offline) wallet, you dont actually control the Bitcoin. As of now, BTC has none of those characteristics. Get out while you can. 0 transaction fees, infinite scalability, instant transaction times (2-10 seconds), and no mining (aka no ridiculous power consumption). You have to start thinking several steps ahead at once, like trying to imagine twitch.com in 1990. The strategy isnt sustainable. You sound like I poop-obsessed wing nut. The dams generate electricity whether you need it or not. Peopleve been lusting after gold (god knows why) for millennia because it clearly arouses something inside them. I could definitely sell these for more later. The internet became an amazing avenue for wealth. This is no different from rich wall street people and government controlling fiat currency. Well said, Bill. As a result, I have cashed out on their misfortune. Since when was that a down year? Its not that I enjoy seeing people suffer, but who am to talk them out of it? My friend who has a Masters in Computer Science inquired with me about investing in Bitcoin before Christmas and I told her essentially what I thought as mania. That said, I did buy $300 of Bitcoin back in November (which is a tiny fraction of a percentage of our net worth) on the off chance it keeps escalating like crazy. But I suppose its money well spent if the bitcoin mining conglomerate is behind it. Theyre not very good experts. And of course, the purpose of this whole aside is that I want to establish credibility with you, so you will give this article some consideration. As such, its an awful means of trade. No one person has control over it and that may end up being a good thing (people are corruptible). People then go on to say, If theres even a ONE PERCENT CHANCE that this happens, Bitcoins are severely undervalued and they should really be worth, like, at least a quadrillion dollars each!!. Consensus over its value. Its not going to consume ALL the worlds energy? Research further. Because I think they dont want to devalue the money too fast. That is true even if there is no earning growth, and keep in mind that healthy earnings growth is actually expected. Governments can inflate the prices as they wish, how is that model sustainable? No. I agree that Bitcoin isnt an investment. Consequently, theres a very limited way in which gold can feed you (and bitcoin cant), Uberartist Thats a really bad equivocation. In a sense one could swap bitcoin to USD and the article still stands. I dont have time to play PC games 24 hours a day, so I might as well use my fancy computer to make some money while Im away from it. Do not give up. Use this 500K wisely and make our planet better! There used to be cool arbitrage opportunities on a website called purse.io, where you could buy amazon products for a discount using bitcoin but transaction fees have made those types of business models (temporarily?) January 3, 2018, 12:55 pm. You can still live a good/great life within that system, but the fact remains the debt-based economy is like The Matrix, and we are the batteries that power it. January 3, 2018, 9:18 pm. This part of it is ideological to me: You Must Earn Your Money By Creating Value for Everyone. January 2, 2018, 7:05 pm. Whatever they are willing to pay to enjoy owning these things themselves is their business, and may make for a fairly rational purchase. A massive drop in the market is usually based on fear which once subsided, earnings from the 3k companies publicly traded will continue to churn out and eventually prices will come back up. Gotta! You have unwittingly tripped up your own argument here. Vivek Prasannan And nothing that can go on forever, does. It's as simple as getting any brokerage account and buying the Vanguard Exchange traded fund called VTI, or getting a Betterment account and setting your allocation to at least 90% stocks. But really, I'm not a finance guy - someone who devotes most of his time to optimizing money. Theyre stunningly shiny, surprisingly heavy duty, and generating plenty of buzz on Twitter where Im giving them away. Bill Batchelor Priced in gold, they are still down more than 60%. January 10, 2018, 11:01 am. They said they are going to ban it, but there was such public outcry the government just backed off and now says they are still discussing the matter! The question is if one is worth $15k? "@origamicyber So true! The web. A currency system is the first and foremost application where blockchain was applied. https://www.cryptocompare.com/mining/calculator/btc?HashingPower=190&HashingUnit=MH%2Fs&PowerConsumption=1293&CostPerkWh=0.12, Matt Stephenson Shit. So, they sell it at a discount instead of losing revenue. Mr. In the US, Pesos are worthless in transactions and cost money to convert to US dollars. I'm sure this had nothing to do with their personal stake in the outcome." The other argument for Bitcoins value is that there will only ever be 21 million of them, and they will eventually replace all other world currencies, or at least become the new gold, so the fundamental value is either the entire worlds GDP or at least the total value of all gold, divided by 21 million. He appeared on the Kevin Rose podcast as well. January 5, 2018, 8:26 am. Unlike gold or tulip bulbs or cigarettes or salt, no one desires dollars as goods in and of themselves. Hard to shove a tulip bulb through the wires, eh? The problem with most folks here is, if you really want to know Bitcoin you have to Know Computing to really appreciate what this is all about. Mr. Money Mustache And so my joker friend, how many Fiat currencies exist on this planet, have you even counted? Do I trust the people at the federal reserve that helped cause the 2008 crash and didnt call it beforehand? Ill stick with the stock market thank you very much. Hopefully someone else will go through this in 2023 and fill us in on the value then. And yet imagine everybody started bidding up Cancer-Pills, to the point that they cost $17,000 each and fluctuate widely in price, seemingly for no reason. (Update from late 2018 Mike ended up being wayyyy wrong.). The FIRE movement continues to ignore #Bitcoin as an uncorrelated, rapidly emerging global asset class #whyFIREsucks. Maybe you know about Mr. Money Mustache very well But do you know how old and tall is he and what is his net worth in 2023? It is 14 January, 2021 when I am writing this. I understand this is an MMM forum but i mean come on.. you have to recognize that managed risk is a part of building wealth. The only thing I would add as a further disagreement to MMMs article is that speculation is inherently a GOOD thing. You are a noble man ! I also invested in a bitcoin two years ago, and paid off all my debt with it. I enjoyed the cancer pill analogy, probably the best I have heard of yet. Vijay, ): the Problem with calling Bitcoin a Ponzi Scheme. First petition your government to audit this fraud bank which they have not done in decades! I enjoyed this analysis by Aswath Damodaran, a thoughtful investor and Professor at NYU school of business. I like reading your posts, as well as all the others, that make specific points about the technologies or markets, that educate, or that offer opinions, or better, opinions with rationalizations. So for it to be a global currency taco bell is going to have to start paying kids in btc. The people that buy into bitcoin will be hurting enough financially. Maybe the currencies will be useful to, but the really useful ones will be the ones designed for some purpose. rollie fingers Well so they can monitor everything and where all the funds go. Let them hold on to their fiat currency if they like to. Take that money and RUN! I know a lot of people in the DOTCOM bubble in the 2000s that were too focused on maximizing profits and lost most of their wealth on paper after the tech crash. Why? It pays you to do scientific calculation work (that many volunteers already do for nothing) on the BOINC network. I agree with you, Chris. Thats something worth giggling. Its trust is the full force of the weapons and arsenal behind it. Why should it not be? Joey Graziano Allow it time to grow to say 10 trillion, and then let us debate on stability. Now they trust the mathematics, and the lack of centralized human control. Listen on: Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube. A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent operation designed to steal peoples money. Guess what, we can automate all of those jobs with cryptocurrencies. The bidding up of prices in pursuit of speculative riches is not fine. I have been hearing Bitcoin is a scam and a bubble since the time it was 200 bucks! Why not somebody elses fingernail clippings? do not feed into this crap that there is no banking infrastructure. In a world of human trust, putting the wisest and most respected people in a position of Adult Supervision is a useful tactic. It seems like youre advocating for scenario #2. Although I do get where MMM is trying put an emphasis on the difference in investing and speculation. 7 Replies 594 Views February 10, 2023, 11:49:28 AM by index: Bonds funds vs stable value funds. And what about physical forms of cash for private sales? Im not so sure youre right about mining them though, especially if you mine with computer hardware that you already have. 2) Prices rise so much that earnings increase while stock prices remain the same. Said every speculation sucker since the 17th Century. Any efficiency brought to commerce through blockchain technology are very likely to show up as increased dividends from index funds. !, What is money? 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